Fill timeline with clips according to timecode

Hello,

Honestly, I read the manual from front to end, but I didn't find a solution yet:

I have many clips from a DSLR, with breaks in between. Now I want to put them on a timeline using the TC to space them accordingly.
The only way I found would be to have a continuous audio and try to sync them to that track, which I don't.

Is there any other way to use TC to fill a timeline?

(The TC is valid, Resolve recognizes it, so this should not be the problem)

Thanks for any help.

For info: this functionality is present in Lightworks and is called "kemroll". Maybe that rings a bell.
Right now my solution is to create such a kemroll in Lightworks and export a EDL to Resolve. For the future this won't be an option since I plan to stop paying for Lightworks.

You can do this in a way. Do you need to drop the clips in a timeline that correspond to the original timecode, or are you going to effectively "restripe" with new code?

If Resolve recognizes the clip timecode, then exporting the timeline as individual clips should retain the code. If it does not recognize the code, then you have a problem. You may have to prep the clips with a utility like 5DtoRGB (mentioned elsewhere) to transcode to a more usable format with readily-accessible timecode.

I understand why people use DSLRs for some projects, but they're very dodgy for post, particularly in terms of audio, timecode, and issues with being highly-compressed 8-bit images.

Hello,

Honestly, I read the manual from front to end, but I didn't find a solution yet:

I have many clips from a DSLR, with breaks in between. Now I want to put them on a timeline using the TC to space them accordingly.
The only way I found would be to have a continuous audio and try to sync them to that track, which I don't.

Is there any other way to use TC to fill a timeline?

(The TC is valid, Resolve recognizes it, so this should not be the problem)

Thanks for any help.

For info: this functionality is present in Lightworks and is called "kemroll". Maybe that rings a bell.
Right now my solution is to create such a kemroll in Lightworks and export a EDL to Resolve. For the future this won't be an option since I plan to stop paying for Lightworks.

You can't do it as far as I'm aware. You would have to simulate Lightworks workflow, by making some app which would read TCs from your clips and create and EDL. This shouldn't be that difficult. I could try to do such an app for small fee (if you are Mac based).

[Peter Chamberlain]

IF the clips have valid timecode, sort them in the media pool by start timecode, select all and then create new timeline with selected clips.

What about gaps then?

Thanks for your answers.

Just to clarify: I use two little tools to prepare the clips for proper work, these are magic lantern for file logging and QTChange to implement TC, and then the clips are transcoded into DNxHD. I am fully aware of the quality problems of H264 as source.

As Uli correctly noticed, when I create a timeline with the TC sorted clips, I am losing the gaps in between them.

The whole thing is a recording of a theatrical performance. I use two cams, one of them is running all the time, recording everything, but only from one angle, and the other is the DSLR, with closeups and the like from different angles, but with breaks in between to reposition myself and because of the old 12-minute-problem of DSLRs.

Now I want to basically create a multicam edit, but for that to work I need two single streams, and not a collection of clips. I tried, but I get all kinds of funny results when I try, unless I missed something basic in multicam editing.

The audios of the two cams seem to be too different to use it for an audio sync as it is offered by DaVinci. I tried.

And yes, I am not a professional, this is for private purposes only, so I need to take the tools which are available (different cams and the like). DaVinci is just a huge improvement in my toolset.

@Andrew: Thanks for the offer, but I am on win10.

Well, with multicam you should always start cameras in the same time and keep them recording all the time. In such a case multicam recording is easy to edit, as everything is in sync. I would not use Resolve for this neither.
In your case timecode doesn't help much as you keep turning off other camera. You have to do a lot manually.

Well, serious TC would help him, but the DSLR doesn't have that. I'm currently in a very similar situation, recording Wayang Golek, which lasts about 5-6 hours! Only one of my cameras can run that long without interruption, a Sony A7S with a Shogun (main audio) and external batteries.

The others two are run-n-gun and short takes, but recording audio too.

I tried the audio-based syncing feature in Resolve too, to no avail.

But PluralEyes is syncing my multicam sequence just fine, after that I have to move the XML through Premiere, since Resolve doesn't recognize it directly. The exported XML from Premiere works fine and there is my multicam sequence on three synchronized tracks in Resolve and I'm happy!

@Uli: I do have serious TC. The tool QTChange takes the timestamp in the clip and translates it into valid TC and writes it back into the file. Resolve, Fusion and Lightworks recognize this as valid TC.

Lightworks solves my problem just fine, it creates a timeline with all the gaps, fills them with solid black and creates a nice EDL which is imported into Resolve without Problem (again, they call it "kemroll", coming from the old editor machines)

It's just that I want to stop paying for LW because I don't earn money for my video work and Resolve is also a quite good editor for my purposes. And with LW free version I can't export EDLs.

But Andrews hint might be a way to go. Maybe I can find a way to dig into the file structure of the clips and create a basic EDL with some tool, maybe write one myself. Or is there something hanging around in the internet already? (free would be a nice option in that case)

writing such a scrip from scratch should not very hard, but if you want to do it in a more GUI related manner, i would take a look a nuke studio non-commercial. it's highly customizable by python scripts and it's available on any platform [in strict contrast to resolve and it's stupid linux politics ].

edit: but edl/xml/mlt export isn't allowed in this non-commercial edition of nuke out of the box either, but it could by written as a free add on. in general it's the same unsatisfying situation as concerning other free editing and video post processing software: the project exchange and interoperability is the weakest point.

I just don't understand where you get TC info in your SLR footage, so they are inserted into proper position in the timeline?

@Andrew: The tool is called "QTChange" and is made by "Videotoolshed" (I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post links here, so please search yourself).

It takes the timestamp of the file and somehow translates it to TC, and then writes it back into the file. So the MOV file is actually changed to contain TC. It was written with DSLRs in mind, to help out in the late DSLR revolution.

It's a matter of minutes: Drag all camera clips into the tool, select all the things you want to change (including adding a reel name, changing fps and quite a few other handy options) and click "start". Every selected file is then rewritten on the drive, leaving the video content alone.

I know this tool. I got it now. So it translates time of the day into TC and adds it as timecode track.
It's not that difficult to read TC and based on this create an EDL file. I could do it for Mac, but not PC, as I have not enough programming skills:)

Good. Maybe the misunderstanding is because i am not a native english writer.

Since you say you could program it (at least for Mac), can you point me to some resources to find out about the structure of MOV files, how or where to find TC, and the basics of EDL creation? Are there tutorials out there, papers maybe, about how TC is embedded in video files?

Cmd line version of mediainfo will give you start TC, as well as duration etc.

Plain edl line

001 BLANK AA/V C 10:00:00:00 10:12:32:06 00:02:00:00 00:14:32:06

start TC in clip, end TC in clip start TC in your timeline, end TC in your timeline (difference for both should be the same)

...can you point me to some resources to find out about the structure of MOV files, how or where to find TC, and the basics of EDL creation?

apples documentation about the quicktime containers are not hard to find:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPEG-4_Pa ... ory_of_MP4

but i would not take this indirection if you have to use the timestamps in your files / exif data as the primary source of information.

you should also take into account that this kind of information usually doesn't look precise enough to replace real timecode information. even very simple tasks, like combining the 4GB file fragments of typical DSLR footage or dual system sound sync, doesn't work very well based on this kind of impreciseness. but embedded quicktime timecode generated by some cheap cameras (e.g. GH4) doesn't look much more reliable.

This is a workaround. It may be a bit slow if you have a lot of clips.

Create a Resolve timeline with the start timecode matching the first clip start timecode.
Add all the clips in the correct ascending timecode order.
Export an EDL from the timeline.
Edit the EDL in a text editor. You should be able to copy the source timecode column in and out timecode to the record column in and out timecode.
Save the new EDL.
Import the new EDL which should conform a new sequence with all the clips in their appropriate places.
Source clip timecode should match the sequence timecode.

I have not tried this yet!

@Peter: This sounds like an interesting approach.

With my level of programming experience it should be no problem to write a script to change the EDL.
It's definitely worth a try!

I'll keep you updated. Thanks!

This is a workaround. It may be a bit slow if you have a lot of clips.

Create a Resolve timeline with the start timecode matching the first clip start timecode.
Add all the clips in the correct ascending timecode order.
Export an EDL from the timeline.
Edit the EDL in a text editor. You should be able to copy the source timecode column in and out timecode to the record column in and out timecode.
Save the new EDL.
Import the new EDL which should conform a new sequence with all the clips in their appropriate places.
Source clip timecode should match the sequence timecode.

I have not tried this yet!

this works if you don't have overlapping clips.

Thanks for the hint, but luckily they don't.

This is a workaround. It may be a bit slow if you have a lot of clips.

Create a Resolve timeline with the start timecode matching the first clip start timecode.
Add all the clips in the correct ascending timecode order.
Export an EDL from the timeline.
Edit the EDL in a text editor. You should be able to copy the source timecode column in and out timecode to the record column in and out timecode.
Save the new EDL.
Import the new EDL which should conform a new sequence with all the clips in their appropriate places.
Source clip timecode should match the sequence timecode.

I have not tried this yet!

EDL has very plain structure, so you don't have to create one and than edit it. If you do have timecodes than it's very easy to generate and EDL file. I'm doing something very similar now, but my timecodes come from DPP XML metadata file.

I'm not sure if my programming skills are enough to use mediainfo for TC extraction. I'll try it, but the approach with first generating an EDL in DaVinci is a safe fallback for me, then.

But thank you for all your thoughts, I really appreciate this.

also, instead to use a text editor, loaf the edl in excel, you will copy the two column in no time from source to destination

Just google it- it's quite easy.

In BASH:

source="/video.mov"
tc="$(mediainfo "$source" | grep "Time code of first frame" )"
tc=${tc#*: } # cut everything after : which is TC string
echo "$tc"

BASH

i would also solve it in a similar manner...

batch processing should be as simple as possible to eliminate any manual intervention.

why should one use a tool to add TC to the files, a huge grading application to extract them and a spread sheet calculator to edit some rows of numbers? a lot of steps that can not be automatized. that's the way computer let human people act like proceeding a program. something, that should happen the other way round.

just get the timestaps out of all your footage by help of 'exiftool' and generate a simple EDL / XML based on this data by utilizing the programming/script language of your choice.

BASH

i would also solve it in a similar manner...

batch processing should be as simple as possible to eliminate any manual intervention.

why should one use a tool to add TC to the files, a huge grading application to extract them and a spread sheet calculator to edit some rows of numbers? a lot of steps that can not be automatized. that's the way computer let human people act like proceeding a program. something, that should happen the other way round.

just get the timestaps out of all your footage by help of 'exiftool' and generate a simple EDL / XML based on this data by utilizing the programming/script language of your choice.

that is fine if you actually know how to program. ....

IMO programming is unnecessary for this job. Also Martin was clear that the original clips have timecode, so no adding timecode is required.

I have done a lot of EDL work in the past and simple keyboard macros work well for this kind of job.

Martin:
For future jobs I would just do a continuous sound recording and all problems disappear.
My approach is to ALWAYS design the post workflow BEFORE the shoot. Then you know it will work.
Also, how many clips do you have?

I guess I hit a nerve here...

Continuous sound should be no problem, but according to several other posts, sync via audio doesn't seem to work properly in DaVinci (12.1 here), and it didn't work for me for sure this time.

But still, is the use of a "kemroll" function so unusual? Lightworks does it and afaik Premiere, too.

Would that be a valid feature request? Or can it be simulated with a few other mouseclicks in DV?

Continuous sound should be no problem, but according to several other posts, sync via audio doesn't seem to work properly in DaVinci (12.1 here), and it didn't work for me for sure this time.

yes -- that's very typical for resolve. there are lots similar pseudo features, that got implemented to generate buzz at some product presentation, but never worked very well in real live. bug reports related to this issues usually get ignored in a matchless consequent way. yes -- that's the bad side of resolve.

but IMHO it still looks more acceptable then the bad state of affairs in lightworks land. resolves strategy concerning this issues may be characterized as very indifferent, but on the lightworks side things get dictated in much worse and stupid way.

automatic clip alignment by sound correlation is very well example for this kind of troubles.
in resolve it got implemented, but never worked acceptable in practice. in lightworks the project leaders simply ignore any user request for such a feature for years. that's why at minimum three independent substitutes were written by users to fill the gap (as you may know. i was one of them ). but satisfying solutions can only be archived in cooperation and mutual support, not against the power of software factories. that's why all this three development attempts didn't change much at the end.

i don't know, why editing solutions still do not give us similar APIs for customization and add on development as any compositing application nowadays? this would make it very easy, to solve tasks like yours. that's why i expressed my sympathies about nuke-studio/hiero in a previous post. it's the closest answer to this kind of need. resolve represents more the opposite side. it's becoming more and more a solution for the typical macintosh user crowd. that isn't bad per se. if i do editing/grading work, i also usually want solutions, that simply work fast and maximize my creativity. but i always stumble over task, where i would like to see more openness to adapt the tools to my specific needs.

But still, is the use of a "kemroll" function so unusual? Lightworks does it and afaik Premiere, too.

yes -- this kind of feature makes some sense.

i would not use lightworks antiquated and idiosyncratic terminology to denote it, but otherwise i second your request.

I know this is an old post but I have figured out how to do this in a slightly different context. I video kids sports and will often use two cameras - one for the game and one for the clock - thenI clip the clock on top of the main game camera in the bottom right corner. This is easy to do in Prem Pro where you just slap the two clips on top of each other, crop/scale and position the camera, and then hit sync. DR doesn't seem to have that sync feature.

I think I've figured out how to do this - not sure its the best way but it certainly works.

First I create my main timeline but don't put anything in it.

Then I take all 6 clips ((main camera + scoreboard) * 3 periods - this example is for hockey) and make a multicam clip out of them and sync with timecode. Then I open the newly created multicam clip in the timeline - I set everything up in there the way I want it (crop/scale/position the scoreboard, etc.) and then copy and paste the entire multicam clip timeline into the main timeline. That seems to work.

I really wish that DR would just give us a 'sync' command like Prem Pro has so I can do this all in the main timeline, but this is a reasonably easy workaround. My guess is that either: (a) they will add this soon, or (b) it already exists and I just haven't stumbled over how to do it yet.

Does that methodology make sense?

Stunned that resolve does not have this feature

Stunned that resolve does not have this feature

While I def agree with you, and there is no reason not to have two different ways to do the same thing in an NLE, I have to say that the Cut page is pretty good at doing what I need it to do here.

With Resolve 17 timecode syncing can be done using Auto Align Clips -> Based on Timecode
Altough it needs to be done 2 clips at a time. Still better than nothing.

Maybe one day we can select all the clips in the timeline and use Auto Align Clips -> Based on Timecode

In Avid it is called "Auto Sequence" and has existed forever. In Resolve, it is now (I don't know since when) possible with "Insert Selected Clips to Timeline Using Timecode". See also this thread about it:
spread clips on a timeline based on their Start TC?

Resurrecting this old thread. In new DVR, in the media pool in the edit page, right click the highlighted clips and do "Insert Selected Clips to Timeline Using Timecode"

Resurrecting this old thread. In new DVR, in the media pool in the edit page, right click the highlighted clips and do "Insert Selected Clips to Timeline Using Timecode"

Yeah, I'm not sure if this was available in 2015. We had (and still have) this feature in Pro Tools, where I believe it's called "Spot Clips to Original Time Stamps," and it's been a thing for like 15-20 years.