Getting Started with Live Production

Hey folks. I'm the Media Arts Director at my church and we're looking to "dip our toes" into the pool of the live production world.

Our goal is to archive, stream (online), and broadcast (in-house). Everything I know about live production has been gathered through research over the last two weeks. So, needless to say, my knowledge is relatively limited (though I can grasp things pretty quickly).

At this point, my head feels like it's about to explode so I'm hoping to dump some of that out and see if I can get you guys to partner with me in sorting through the mess.

I've attached a diagram that I put together. This is what I THINK our setup is supposed to look like. Please correct and give input.

Here are some specifics notes and questions:

|||| We have a $10,000 budget to get started. There should be more money readily available to expand and upgrade, but we need to start within that budget.

|||| I'd like to have a 3 camera setup at minimum but we're likely going to start with just one. I'm leaning towards the Canon XF305 but am considering starting with a Canon XF105 for the price so we can have more "room to breathe" on other equipment needed (and attach a 1.7X telephoto conversion lens to get a tighter shot from the back of the room, which is approximately 90 feet from the front of the stage). I'd then like to potentially move that camera to a handheld on stage when budget allows us to purchase XF305's.

|||| I'm not sure exactly what ATEM switcher we need, but I'm thinking the 1 M/E.

|||| I'm not sure that the Livestream Broadcaster is the best solution for our streaming needs, but I'd really love for it to be so as to not to HAVE to mess with a computer for encoding/streaming just yet.

|||| I'm also not really entirely sure what all the setup ACTUALLY looks like between this stuff. I know what major components I'm working with, but I don't know what cables and converters and things I might need to consider (though I've done a little research, I just don't have anything definitive yet).

So any help anyone can provide is greatly appreciated and welcomed.

Hey, I'm in the same boat (well, maybe a week ahead of you).

I've just purchased (and will use for the first time this weekend) a very similar setup to what you have, but I'm not a vet, so take everything I've got with a grain of salt.

I'm running the Television Studio (which gives 6 inputs) with a macbook pro and a hyperdeck shuttle for recording. We're not at the live stream point or imag point yet, but we will be outputting to a monitor in the lobby.

Your setup looks pretty logical. The only thing that I might suggest to simplify is to run the audio from your soundboard into one of your cameras (assuming the camera is closer to your sound board than it is to your switcher). That'll cut down on your long runs of cable.

For what little it may be worth, here's our current setup (along with a couple additions we're going to make in the next few months). Cameras are Panasonic HMC80's

That is very helpful to see, actually. Our setup will be different, of course. But just visualizing all of that is a great benefit.

As for the audio into camera, the only issue I see with that is that, as I understand it (and correct me if I'm wrong), the ATEM 1 M/E doesn't pass any audio along with the HD-SDI signal from the cameras.

I don't THINK that's a problem with the ATEM 2 M/E, but the 2 runs near double the cost of the 1, which is manageable, but I'm not sure if it's necessary for us right now.

Though, as of now, I think we'll probably have the switcher AND the camera (which will then be Camera 1 position) in close proximity to FOH anyway. But as we grow, that would probably be good to keep in mind.

For audio I disaggree. The FOH might be fixed installed, also the video control (ATEM). So I think a fixed connection directly would be more stable and maybe shorter. But you have to use a separate analog to digital (AES/EBU - or SPDIF) audio converter. A lot of people use a Behringer Ultracurve DEQ2496. This also can be used, when audio delay is needed.

All ATEMs can handle audio form the cameras / sources, including a switchable "audio follows video".

Hmm.. they say that it strips the audio here:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/7 ... ction.html

That's good to know that that's not the case.

Assuming I use the Livestream Broadcaster, will the ATEM transmit audio via HDMI-out?

The ATEM audio mixer can mixup the embedded audio coming from all sources and on external input (at TVS via AES/EBU). All inputs are metered and the gain can be controlled using the software control. You also can set a "audio follws video" but this is a hard cut. You can't pan and you can't modify the eq. There is no PFL (pre fade listening). So I would prefer an external mixer and only embed the finished audio mix using ATEMs external in.

Audio is outputted by USB-, SDI- and HDMI-program out, not via preview (neither SDI, nor HDMI).

I did just find out our projector's model. It's a Sanyo PLC-XP200.

It looks like it's got DVI-D & VGA on INPUT 1, then 5 BNC ports on INPUT 2, and 3 RCA ports on INPUT 3.

Not sure what my best bet is there for connectivity with the ATEM.

Another question..

Because I need a computer to control the ATEM anyway, would I be better served to just use that same computer for streaming? Livestream makes it sound as if simply connecting the ATEM through USB and using their software will allow for an instant streaming setup.

Another question..

Because I need a computer to control the ATEM anyway, would I be better served to just use that same computer for streaming? Livestream makes it sound as if simply connecting the ATEM through USB and using their software will allow for an instant streaming setup.

It's certainly possible to do that. I have done it. I would say however it is preferrable to have a second machine available. Juggling the ATEM control and the Livestream software on-screen can be a little cumbersome.

You do need to be careful that your laptop is "beefy enough" to handle the CPU load. Their software has to decompress the H.264 from the USB... then re-compress into the various bit-rates you select. If you are doing SD only streaming.. that won't be a consideration. I typically stream using HD+Medium preset - and my laptop (an i7) reaches a peak of about 65% CPU. Others have reported their systems having 90%+

It's certainly possible to do that. I have done it. I would say however it is preferrable to have a second machine available. Juggling the ATEM control and the Livestream software on-screen can be a little cumbersome.

I agree. For controlling the ATEM you don't need a high performance computer. So you can use an old and cheep computer (the only need is the right resolution to display the complete control window). Maybe you have someone, who creates electronical cirquits. You could build a cheep and simple hardwarecontroller.

Put the ATEM Softwarte as backup to your streaming comuter.

Well, since you recommend having them separate, does anybody see doing an HDMI program out to the Livestream Broadcaster as a viable solution to streaming without needing a computer?

I know the Broadcaster is primarily marketed as a simple, attach to your camera and connect to WiFi, streaming solution, so I'm not sure if there would be issues running a multi-camera program out of a switcher through it.

In my limited knowledge, I don't really see why it would be a problem, but I definitely would love to hear some feedback from those more knowledgeable than I.

Well, since you recommend having them separate, does anybody see doing an HDMI program out to the Livestream Broadcaster as a viable solution to streaming without needing a computer?

There would be no problem with doing that. The Livestream Broadcaster will not care the video being presented to it over HDMI is being switched using some other gear... all it cares about is having a stable video signal - and the ATEM will provide that.

For a little more $$ - you could instead purchase a Teradek VidiU ($600 I think). That has the advantage of being compatible with both the new Livestream and any other streaming service out there. Teradek will not say this "officially" - but the Livestream Broadcaster is their gear in any case.

For streaming and recording, Matrox announced their Monarch HD streaming appliance that also does recording. It will let you stream and record with different bitrates independantly (up to 20mbps for streaming, and 30 mbps for recording) all in one appliance.

Alright, I'm still working through all this and trying to figure stuff out. I definitely appreciate all the help so far.

I'm attaching an updated diagram. If you see any issues with it, please let me know.

Two main things I'm trying to figure out right now:

1) Am I going to have issues outputting to this projector (Sanyo XP200)? I've ready about issues due to the ATEM outputting YUV and a lot of people trying to connect to RGB projectors.

This projector has 5 BNC connections. The first three are labeled: (VIDEO/Y, Pb/Cb, Pr/Cr) which makes me think I'm ok, but those three are also labeled: (G, B, R). The other two say: (H/V, V).

Any thoughts? Also, do I just use an HD-SDI cable to connect to these inputs?

2) I need to use the Blackmagic UltraStudio 3D (or 4K) to send key and fill outputs from our iMac running ProPresenter. How do I connect this? Do I only need to connect to the iMac through Thunderbolt? And what does the connection look like as far as the ATEM goes? Am I going to eat up an HD-SDI input or is there some different connection for keying purposes? If I am going to use a regular HD-SDI input, do I only need to use one?

Again, really appreciate the help here folks. Thanks so much.

-
1) Am I going to have issues outputting to this projector (Sanyo XP200)? I've ready about issues due to the ATEM outputting YUV and a lot of people trying to connect to RGB projectors.

This projector has 5 BNC connections. The first three are labeled: (VIDEO/Y, Pb/Cb, Pr/Cr) which makes me think I'm ok, but those three are also labeled: (G, B, R). The other two say: (H/V, V).

Any thoughts? Also, do I just use an HD-SDI cable to connect to these inputs?

bmd makes a product perfect for this the hdlink dvi/display port, but yes hdsdi is the best way to feed the projector not composite video or even component ... although the 1me can output y,pb,pr ... googler says this projector is native 1024/786. the hdlink will handle any rgb/yuv issues and also let you adjust your output resolution. and also provide you a looped out sdi feed for other monitors etc.

-
2) I need to use the Blackmagic UltraStudio 3D (or 4K) to send key and fill outputs from our iMac running ProPresenter. How do I connect this? Do I only need to connect to the iMac through Thunderbolt? And what does the connection look like as far as the ATEM goes? Am I going to eat up an HD-SDI input or is there some different connection for keying purposes? If I am going to use a regular HD-SDI input, do I only need to use one?

key and fill will be 2 sources ... so you will need 2 sdi inputs ... yes just thunderbolt from mac to ultrastudio.

For what it's worth, I just tested streaming to ustream.tv this way successfully:

I'm coming out of the ATEM TVS via HDMI program out into a Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle which is connected to an iMac via thunderbolt. The Intensity Shuttle shows up as a camera source in the Ustream Producer software.

Best of luck.

Good to know I need two HD-SDI inputs for the key/fill. That makes me think we may need to go with the ATEM 2 M/E.

Ultimately, I'd like to see us with a 6 camera setup. (1) Left, (1) Right, (2) Center, (2) Stage

Combined with the feed from ProPresenter, we're looking at 8 inputs, and I want to keep them all HD-SDI. So I would imagine it makes the most sense to go with the 2 M/E now and work into it, rather than quickly outgrow the 1 M/E and have to upgrade a year from now.

For your edification, the 5 BNC connectors on your projector are analog inputs. For composite you use the Y/C connector. For component you use, the Y/Pb/Pr connectors, and for VGA you use the R/G/B/H/V (RGBHV red green blue horizontal and vertical sync aka VGA).

FWIW, it's also called "RGB+HV".

Ok, so here is the question. We are stepping into a very similar situation as what you have described at my church as well. So I would love to here your thoughts on how things have gone? My biggest concern is are you doing IMAG and if so is there any lag issues you have encountered?

Hey. Sorry I missed your post.

We actually just ordered the equipment for Phase 1 (though I'd almost consider it Phase 0.5)

We're going to stream with just the Canon XF305 (on a Manfrotto tripod) and Teradek VidiU. The reason for this is that we had some other needs we wanted to try to address with the $10,000 budget.

We got two MacBook Pro's, one for myself and one for another person coming on staff that will also do some video work. We also got some lighting and backdrop equipment for video announcements, etc.

So we will start testing the streaming when the camera arrives on Monday. We'll officially start streaming the service in September.

In 2014 we'll be adding two more cameras, the ATEM, and UltraStudio. At that point we will be doing IMAG.

So unfortunately I can't give much input from experience yet. But I've gathered a good bit of information since I've started this whole process. So I'd love to stay connected and talk things through if you'd like.

Feel free to send me a private message and I'll give you my email if you'd like to talk more.